Let Food Be The Medicine

 I want to open with a quote from Thomas

Edison

he said the doctor of the future

will no longer treat the human frame

with drugs but rather will cure and

present prevent disease with nutrition

are we there yet we're on route so tell

us about what you do at the Center for

Integrative Health and Center for

Integrative Nutrition so at the Centers

we are we have a broad-based set of

integrative approaches to health care

the one that I'm particularly passionate

about among all of these well I'm

passionate about all of them but

particularly about nutrition and food as

medicine and we've been developing

programs clinical programs research

programs educational programs community

outreach on all levels to try and really

help create what we think is the

medicine of the future which was

actually the medicine of the ancient

past Hippocrates said it best right and

and Hippocrates probably learned it from

ancient Chinese medicine and Ayurvedic

medicine so this has very very deep

roots the perfect lead and tell us about

Ayurvedic medicine oh you're you're a

medical doctor a Western medical

certified doctor but you also have a big

focus on Ayurvedic medicine and not

necessarily everyone understands or

knows what that means so so yeah I did

my medical training in the conventional

Western medical model and then got out

into practice I'm board-certified in

family medicine so I practiced for many

years and realized I didn't really have

all the tools that I needed to help

people and my parents are from India and

so I knew a little bit about Ayurveda

you know I thought it was kind of home

remedies and things like that and that's

somewhere when I decided to learn a

different way of helping people heal I

you know IRA Bay that really resonated

with me it's you know a mind/body/spirit

approach to medicine so it's a thousands

year-old health and healing system so

it's a very comprehensive healing system

that incorporates many many different

modalities but really the foundation in

Ayurveda is that food is your medicine

and digesting your food

and so you know

there are lots of quotes

different sayings in Ayurveda about how

important it is to eat properly and have

good digestion and that's the core of

your health and then everything else is

complementary but it's a really rich

medical healing system that's really

based on prevention as well as the route

and then there are lots of treatments

for health conditions when they happen

but the really the principles are based

on prevention and empowering people to

be their own healers that's the thing I

think that interested me when that 

Western medicine

often deals with the symptoms of the

problem you're treating the symptoms and

whereas Ayurveda would say that's number

six and we go back and start at step one

and I think that's really fascinating

thinking about prevention or perhaps if

you're on a certain trajectory it

doesn't mean that you're predestined to

end up there you can take steps and in

your diet and your activity in

eliminating toxins

and so on to change

that and I think that's really

fascinating 

i do

 at the Gerson Institute

we're a local nonprofit and  we

have another anniversary are actually

celebrating we're 40 years old this year

and we are we were developed as an

education and training and information

referral agency for the work to support

people that would like to follow dr.

Gerson's work he was he was trained as

an internist he was a neurosurgeon he

was a

soil scientist in his own right

and he even for a period of time served

as the agricultural consultant to the

Prussian government at that time and

also the Bavarian government before he

came to the United States in the 30s and

he originally developed the Gerson

Therapy to treat his own migraine

headaches and he did that through a diet

elimination program and then that

progressed and developed to his using it

to treat skin tuberculosis

at that time

and then developed into pulmonary

tuberculosis and soon after that he was

asked to also try it for for cancer

which

he refused at first because he

said I know nothing about that and this

is so but

he was starting to realize that he had a

systemic program here he came from the

attitude and the concept of totality so

he looked at everything he looked at the

air quality issues the water issues

besides the the nutrition it had to be

fresh organic he developed of course

individual protocols for people but

there were similarities and some of the

basics were just like salt restriction

potassium enhancement some natural

supplementation protein restriction

initially and developed continued to

develop the program to treat very

seriously ill people so that's we're now

training doctors around the world in

cyberspace and Stella education program

and expanding our ability to help more

people so it's very exciting to see the

the interest coming from everywhere with

with not just that it's necessary to eat

healthy but that it can really be used

as as a treatment for very very serious

illnesses to bring the body back into

total balance and to to move to a

vibrancy and a vitality of life it's

been said that food can either be the

best medicine or the slowest poisoned

right and so we have a little yin and

yang on this panel today to talk about

both sides of that coin because it's

important right as we talk about what

you should choose maybe sometimes we

have to talk about what you should not

choose and it it may and depending on

the discipline or the focus that that

answer may vary but I want to use it as

a segue to my friends then over here to

talk about the work that you do then oh

thank you so much well I'm Zen Honeycutt

for moms across America and we're a

National Coalition of unstoppable moms

and our motto is empowered moms healthy

kids and we raise awareness about GMOs

and toxins all kinds of toxins from all

kinds of exposure and we offer GMO free

and organic solutions and through

supporting local leadership we are

creating healthy communities together in

collaboration with many different

organizations and that means offering

free materials supplies training talking

points to go to City Council or join

into 4th of July parades or to reach out

to your food director at your school and

so I'm very excited to connect with

people from all across the

around the world we have mothers across

the world as well and and to see the

results that children are getting better

you know our children are the most

vulnerable to these toxins and they are

getting better by changes through diet

in fact my my three sons who are in the

back are examples of that they had

allergy life-threatening allergies my

son almost died from pecans and the

stuffing on Thanksgiving and also autism

symptoms asthma an autoimmune issues and

all of them have recovered through using

food in their in their diet eating

organic taking care of the gut biome

which I'm sure we'll talk about and and

and so I know that we can do this as a

country we can recover our children and

our families and we can turn around the

food industry and the health in our

country thank you and now John you also

have some background in GMO but that's

an that's in generally your scientific

expertise but you also have a laboratory

tell me a little bit about what it is

that that the laboratory does what is it

testing for and how does it work and and

why how does it relate to what she's

doing oh very good what what the Health

Research Institute is designed to do is

to create transparency in the food

system so that everybody can make better

choices about the food they eat that has

to do with the good things the

nutritional aspects and also the bad

things the pesticides the GMOs the all

of those sorts of things the heavy

metals that might be there and so what

we do is we we carry out testing which

then is used by organizations such as

Zen's and many others around the u.s. to

inform the public about these issues and

our belief are and we're very confident

of this is that when moms and dads have

better knowledge about the quality of

their food they can and they will make

better choices about what they feed to

their families and that is going to have

a cascading effect all the way through

the food system it creates demand for

better food

and ultimately farmers were are going to

need to figure out ways they're very

creative and innovative and ingenious

individuals and they're going to figure

out ways to produce food without these

nasty chemicals that harm our physiology

and produce food that is actually higher

in nutritional value because that both

of those can be really measured and

connected with the practices of

Agriculture so that's what we're working

on healthy soil healthy food healthy

people so we're dealing both with a soil

microbiome the gut microbiome and sort

of all of the effects that can have

positive and or negative in terms of

overall health now since we're in the

dirt maybe we ought to go to the farmer

on the panel to list a little bit about

how you got into farming from your last

career so my name is Stephanie Norton

I'm the founding partner of Dickinson

farm this is nothing that my husband and

I ever expected to do nowhere we

expected to be if I follow my original

life plan right now I would be finishing

up in Kuwait and heading back so I went

to a deployment just prior in our plea

to pre-deployment work ups I was on

cycle mini Island I got bit by a tick

the military-medical system is amazing if

you've been shot or have a broken leg

but anything else they really don't know

how to deal with so the medical system

looked at me and said well you have a

plane to catch

and we have a deployment to go on so 10

months in another country I was at

Guantanamo Bay dealing with the

detention centers there were days that I

couldn't walk if I stayed standing I

could stay his handing but any time I

laid down to go to sleep I couldn't

really move my body and it just kept on

getting worse and worse I came home and

the attitude then was now I could figure

out what was going on so I got bounced

around to a whole bunch of doctors and

then finally landed with a misdiagnosis

which landed me with an amazing doctor

so I'm very thankful I had a

misdiagnosis of ankylosing spondylitis

and the attitude was it's okay because

it'll stop hurting when your spine fuses

together um

so we ended up with an amazing doctor

here in San Diego who was considered the

best for ankylosing spondylitis and was

gonna give me somewhat of a life that

day I could walk slightly and I came in

and he said you don't have it I know

pretty sure I know what you do have

we're just gonna take some blood we'll

talk in a month and in that month I got

married we went on our honeymoon and we

get to it about a week after we get the

diagnosis and that day I was told for

the next two years are gonna be in an IV

chair and we're gonna start today and I

said no no I'm on active duty military I

have to run up I have to tell my unit

like I can't do this and the attitude

was she'll be here Monday or you'll be

in a hospital

I had my bacterial load was active I

typically in remission for Lyme your

bacterial load is about less than 200

and mine was 27,000 so I was a Petri

dish undiagnosed in my tissues my bone

marrow and we started out V therapy and

his his thing he's an amazing doctor but

he said you're gonna be mad you're gonna

go home and do whatever sailors do

you're gonna drink your to smoke

whatever you're gonna do but I'm gonna

tell you if you if you watch what you're

doing and you don't inflame your body

anything more than what lime is already

doing the medicine will work better

it'll work quicker and you won't destroy

yourself anymore because I'm gonna kill

your immune system I'm gonna kill

everything in you to get rid of this

bacteria so if you do this it'll help

you and he's like but take a week be

angry you know I'll see you Monday and

we we spent about three months dealing

with you know other we did see essays we

tried a personal chef we tried all these

things and as a military family we were

like we're gonna go broke there's no way

my husband was on duty at nights and

take me to treatment during the day and

and out of desperation I was finally

like I said to my doctor if I go

vegetarian and just grow my own food can

I do that like will you tell me I don't

know how to be a vegetarian like can you

tell me what I have to eat to get

through this and his answer was you

think you want to spend your time not

here growing your own food and I was

like yeah like that's that's personal

lately rational he was like don't let

her kill herself do whatever you're

gonna do and my husband and my cousins

and my dad built me some raised beds

that I could sit on the edge of and in

the evenings and weekends I grew my own

food with no experience I'm from Orange

County my husband's LA and we it turned

out very well he started a new program

this year we did tell us about pharmacy

I love this so with this we've been

we've been we we started farming in 14

we went to market in 16 and then last

year we were I was talking with my my

nurse and just you know how are you

how's the community that type of thing

and when we were talking I was like how

were selling to our community our

neighbors and she reminded me in the way

that best nurses do that your community

is the people that said sat next to you

for two years in an IV chair right your

community is the people that that had

the same struggles and don't forget that

those people still sit there every day

and new people still fill their chairs

and they're who need your food and we

girl 100% heirloom we we don't take

anything this past World War two we we

only use very very little organic

pesticides and that's when it's just the

load is too high and we're gonna lose

the whole farm and in four years the

only thing that we've sprayed is organic

copper and we're really considered of

that for my health and our customers

health so after thinking about it and I

reached out to Cristina we had worked

together before and she was amazing work

with heirloom greens and heirloom

vegetables and they do cook differently

and she can work with them and I was

like hey I want to do this thing like I

I want to get our food in front of

patients and everything from me I just

got my diagnosis and I can't even stand

up to cook for myself to the hey I'm

doing well and I want to get back to

cooking for my family and everything in

between so we launched it and it's been

it's been amazing thank you let me ask

you something Gordon it's been my

understanding for a long time that

nutrition wasn't sort of part of the

required curriculum for medical doctors

is that still the case it's changing

although gradually so seems a little

intuitive I'm just a layperson but we

got we got we got training in

biochemical nutrition you know we all

had to learn how to recite the Krebs

cycle forwards and backwards you know 16

times but that has no clinical practical

application it's found its way a little

bit they're teaching maybe a little more

about the epidemiology

the nutritional

epidemiology of heart disease diabetes

some of the chronic diseases but how

food relates to those specific can get

it yes don't eat this eat that and in

some quarters it's just lip service and

others there is an effort to try and

ingrain it into what people do in

practice how does that differ from what

you do

we are fully focused on using food

either as an adjunct or as the sole

therapy for any patient for any health

the condition that comes in the door you

have something that I've seen a pyramid

of what's called or what you call the

therapeutic order sort of if most of us

who's been to the doctor had a

condition we know that typically where

we're told to take this medicine and or

potentially have this invasive procedure

that's not where you start where do you

start so years ago when my dad was sick

when he had developed cancer and trying

to find a way to help him and his

doctors at Johns Hopkins told my family

that he would likely die in less than a

the year I realized Western medicine didn't

have the answer and I just started

searching reading on the old microfilm

machines and the bowels of Johns Hopkins

Medical Library and I came across I'm

dating myself you and I my eyes bugged

out when I read the story of a physician

who had healed himself of advanced

prostate cancer through a major change

in his diet and and he was as skeptical

as anybody but he had this experience

and I found out about him met him and

met a community of folks who were doing

similar things part of me thought that

you know this is some kind of a strange

cult that I'm slipping into you know

people who claim to be able to use food

to treat to all these diseases and

when I started to change my own diet to

have support for my dad I realized wow

I'm feeling better than ever in my life

and I then learned that all the chronic

health conditions that we're facing the

epidemic diseases as well as the chronic

ones like heart disease diabetes and

cancer all have strong nutritional links

strong dietary factors it seems that

food is is somehow involved with the top

two to three you know killers that we

know of a disease isn't is that how's

that differ or is that similar to your

work yeah absolutely you know again it

starts with the digestion and the food

and and what about digestion because

that's a specific focus in Ayurveda tell

us about that it's very interesting

because you know although food is you

know the most important factor and in

fact I think I had sent you that quote

there's an ancient proverb and this is

thousands of years old you know that

when when the diet is wrong then

medicine is of no use and when when diet

is correct than medicine is of no need

so there is this philosophy that you

know you have to eat properly however

and we see this quite a bit there are a

lot of people who are eating what's

considered the right foods and and in

Ayurveda we all have different mind-body

types so I think that's where people

struggle a bit and we're no

one-size-fits-all exactly yeah and you

really have to look at everyone as an

individual the food you know helps

should be organic and non-GMO and and

you know from nature and all of those

things and then how you prepare it is

very important as to how you're gonna

digest raw or cooked raw or cooked and

also there's this principle of the six

tastes and Ayurveda where you know in

Western medicine it's very reductionist

we look at this one food and we say oh

that's a bad carbohydrate but if

you eat it with the micronutrients that

you need and spices and they don't have

to be like hot spices but just savory

spices that's what helps you digest that

food so there's this concept of how

you're going to digest the food are you

optimizing your digestion and a lot of

the foods are all about now we know what

a science which has been really fun to do

the science that a lot of you know these

healthy foods are shifting the

microbiome and they do most of the

digests

for us but in Ayurveda again it's the

The 60sIn we focus on macronutrients which

is what we learned in medical school

carbohydrates fats proteins how much do

you need of that those are the energy

foods and they're important but that's

one taste in Ayurveda and the other five

are all about the micronutrients and

what you're putting in your food to

support your own digestive process so

that you don't have to take other things

to help you digest your food you're

optimizing your internal mechanisms for

healing and so when you combine a little

bit of sour and a little bit of salt and

the pungent and then the bitter and

astringent those are all the

micronutrients then your body will also

improve digestion it helps you to

improve the digestion so that you can

extract the nutrients from the food and

also, there's this concept of synergy

even in food science now where when you

you know one plus one doesn't just equal

to one plus one can equal ten if you're

combining foods in the right way there's

this concept of food synergy so I think

that's what these you know and a lot of

other traditional healing systems

recognize when a lot of ethnic cooking

naturally has a lot of these flavors all

mixed together and that's what my mom

did she just know what to put in the

foods she didn't necessarily know it as

a scientist but she was a food scientist

right in the kitchen and so any food you

made you knew what to put in it and then

in my analytical mind now I look at all

these recipes and I'm like oh yeah it's

got all these reasons for it yeah and

and it's interesting too that each of

those tastes has a very specific purpose

of what it's doing in your body to help

you digest because again otherwise you

can eat healthy food and still not

digest it absorb it use the

micronutrients the way they're you know

meant to be used and so it's very it's

very it can be very complicated it's a

very sophisticated sort of science but

honestly it's the easiest way I ever

found to figure out how to eat and so

and it's fun you know when you you know

you know my kid I taught my kids you

know these are all these six tastes and

then we would look at our food and say

did we miss one of the tastes and

sometimes you just have to add one

little thing and it makes it a complete

a meal so and that's again optimizing your

internal healing because Ayurveda is all

about using what your body already knows

what to do but things have just got

the way of it maybe you're not giving

your body what it needs to do the

the healing process and again food is is

key in that process but also optimizing

the internal mechanisms that we have for

healing

so we Gordon and I talked a minute

before the show, I brought a couple of

kale salads and I forgot that he had

told me that it would be best to cook

some of the kale I could have one raw

kale salad and one partially cooked kale

salad because a lot of people can't

digest rock him and I'm a big kale fan I

know no one likes to admit that but but

then you had a very specific answer as

to why it is and so I was thinking about

as we were talking that people think I

can't eat that good ingredient but it

might be they can't eat it raw or they

can't eat it cooked tell us a little bit

about that because you were just talking

about that earlier this really gets to

what Sheila was talking about with dr.

Patel was talking about the

digestion there's a concept in Chinese

medicine referred to as the digestive

fire and in they call it Agni in

Ayurvedic medicine and it really is

talking about the ability of the body to

extract the good things from food the

nutritional components the healing

properties and to expel the waste

product and to do that smoothly and

easily and when we get sick that that

that ability starts to weaken and we end

up not fully nourished and not able to

easily eliminate and holding on to toxin

and waste and so the most

the foundational thing you can do is to

strengthen the Agni it's to build up the

digestive fire and sometimes when

people's digestion is very weak you have

to cook your food in a vessel outside of

the body you put the digestive fire into

it and essence pre-digesting it a little

bit so that then you're weakened power

of digestion can be aided by your

the cooking method that's also true of

fermenting and sprouting as well those

are sort of predigested foods are easier

to for the body to assimilate right

correct yeah a little bit of breaking

the food down you know before it you

ingest it can help them the body so it

doesn't have to do as much and then as

that Agni that gets stronger than you

may find you can you know eat things

that you couldn't eat when it was not so

strong although there are some people

in Ayurveda that just naturally don't

digest raw foods very well and you know

there is this kind of different

mind-body types and that might not

be so good for them if they try to do

that so it's very interesting and I

thought you raised something very

interesting earlier Anita when you were

talking about one of the things you do

at Gerson is reduce protein intake

and I know from my own research that

Americans on average you eat about five

times more protein than the World Health

The organization recommends and still twice

as much as our own USDA recommends never

mind that we also waste 40% but

importantly I'm curious about that

because protein is one of those things

that for some people is harder to digest

so tell me why that's part of what you

do at Gerson yeah let me put it in the

context first of the fact that the

majority of our patients are very

seriously ill and I just want to comment

first about food - on the Gerson Therapy

cooking methods are a very big part of

it and the food is cooked very slow and

low and waterless and a lot of people

experience it as being mushy but that

was that's that purpose of it's not only

what you eat it's what's important is

what you assimilate and therefore for a

the body that is stressed and already

compromised to have that like you say

pre-digestion did by that so the

protein is a temporary restriction

during at least the first six weeks

of the therapy because we're trying to

mount in that patient some healing

reactions and some strong detoxing so

and then by protein, we mean after six

weeks there could be for some people it

could be shorter it could be longer

introducing organic low fat or or yogurt

or some lentils that type of things so

it's still an important point when we

say protein we always tend to think of

animal products but lots of vegetables

that have protein as well that's right

so yeah and then also on the on the

therapy it's a tremendous amount of food

if a person's ability to tolerate the full

the regime we're talking about this last

the night it's 20 pounds a day of fresh

organic produce but about 15 to 16

pounds of that is because there's such

an intense due

Singh regime and so for carrot juice is

a day for carrot-apple juice is a day in

for green juices and then the remainder

of that is still for three meals so this

is this is very different when from you

and I we talked a little bit about

official medical food is used in Western

medicine and and what that is versus

what she's talking about tell us of what

medical food is not within your practice

but in general well generally it's very

precise chemically defined compositions

supplemental foods that are given to

people with a very precise usually FDA

approved definition in mind not real

food than powders supplements they're

almost the almost the diametric opposite

of real food it's sort of one of those

ironies isn't it that medical food in

the medical profession is not food it's

sort of like how vegetables under the

farm bill are specialty products I mean

it's one of these things that sort of

boggles the mind so yeah honestly the

the most healing foods are the plants

you know the other foods and it's not

that you have to be a hundred percent

vegetarian although you know there's a

huge amount of data that shows that in

you know a whole food plant-based diet

is the healthiest you know diet as far

as prevention of chronic illness etc but

you know so if you do have some sort of

animal proteins it should be like a

small part of your you know diet in it

just say under its energy food but all

of the healing foods are plant-based

it's nuts seeds vegetables fruits you

know a lot of the things that people

think they have to cut out for reasons

that really are just myths you know and

that that's where the healing foods are

and we need energy foods of course which

can be from plants as well but it's very

interesting you know the balance in the

typical American diet is swayed way over

to meet this seems I think a lot of

people feel sometimes overwhelmed by the

information and the sources of

information how do I know what choices

to make what's right for me or my family

and you know where is there an easy fix

or an easy source you know where where

does anybody please where does one go if

they say I want to do the right thing

and we're not talking about diets and

short-term restrictions except maybe in

the case of fasting but you know how do

I know what

whether I'm eating the things that are

good for me or bad for me you know it is

so individual you know because for

instance I was directed to the gaps diet

when my son's had severe allergies but

one son was allergic to eggs the other

son was allergic to nuts and the gaps

diet has a lot of almonds and eggs and

so that just wasn't gonna work for us so

I first looked at eliminating the

processed foods taking things away right

the processed foods the sodas and the

chips and all of the processed junk

foods and adding in fermented foods

because that's something I could easily

do and with the fermented foods I had to

give some gold stars for a little bit

with my son to get sauerkraut into him

but after a while it became a habit at

dinner yes so they are used to now

eating sauerkraut with dinner almost

every day and 1 tablespoon of sauerkraut

has a trillion good bacteria in it and

and that's something that's a shift for

a lot of Americans to think about we

think of bacteria as a negative thing

and we really do need to reintroduce

this idea of the bacteria in the

microbiome being our friend and and

something that's necessary to take care

of so I like to think of okay first you

know the easy step is to get the junk

out of the house and if there's a parent

out there that says well but my kid will

only eat you know these foods well

that's because you're buying them we are

in charge of what we buy we are in

charge of what's in our house we can put

healthy food in our house we can

experiment with you know you can make

healthy healthy chicken nuggets if it's

organic

you know free-range pasture aids all

that and you can also substitute with

other types of foods so I like to start

with what's there the replacing the

favorite foods with something that's

healthy and adding in the fermented

foods to help the gut right then you can

also add them in in small doses to a

meal or a dish there are you sneaking in

a sandwich you can you can do all kinds

of things that are fermented like Nikki

tips on your site yes

kefir cheese and and yogurt you know

organic yogurt things like that that

they do like that they will have you can

you can sneak some good fermented food

in there we there's an organization

locally olive wood garden and they bring

students in to plant and then harvest

produce and then there were a group of

volunteer chefs and I helped on many

occasions and we would teach them you

know prepare

our food using that vegetable they had

just pulled out of the ground and a lot

of the kids you know didn't know the

vegetables and didn't really want to try

it and I remember one of the chefs Julie

darling would always say there was a one

bite rule you had to take one big bite

before you were allowed to say no and I

always think of that when I try to you

know usually it's my husband I try to

ask him to try something that might be

green or you know has kale in it so you

know there's a one-bite rule and then

usually if you've done your job well you

know then they'll they'll actually like

it too much to their surprise I wanted

to ask you something too as a follow-up

because some of your work has been

really focused on gene expression and

how that's altered by food by toxicity

as well as obviously more recently also

meditation but as we're talking about

the way food you know affects us most of

us think you know calorie in calorie out

fat carbohydrate protein we're talking a

little bit about within the family of

carbohydrates there are better and worse

there okay so but tell us about but

that's just for this moment I think oh

my goodness should I eat the Cinnabon or

the oatmeal but more specifically you

talk about how yeah well okay sorry I

failed Dean no but you talk about how

it's not just affecting you at this

moment but in fact how genes express

themselves and this creates a trajectory

and explain that a little bit for people

like myself who are not science people

so think about food as being not just

those macronutrients the protein the

carbohydrates the fats think of them as

intelligence as information that

influences your physiology and what

we're so so food has that energy and you

know protein building is value to it but

it also has this ability to give your

physiology signals move its move the

physiologies functioning in a better

direction and that's really what happens

with gene expression is that you're

altering things so that and those gene

expression effects the effects on the

way that our genes are being expressed

can happen in seconds or and then go

away in the next few seconds if

you eat that Cinnabon there are enzymes

there are genes in your liver that will

be turned on immediately you will

produce enzymes that will allow you to

deal with that Cinnabon okay for better

or for worse and it will have to do with

accumulation of glycogen and fat and all

that sort of stuff it's not just

affecting you at that moment though

right you're creating a future path yeah

right B that's the point that comes next

is that when you are eating a certain

kind of diet it affects your function in

your gene functioning longer term has

anybody heard the word of the term

epigenetics epigenetics what happens

with epigenetics is that when you when

there's a certain impact on your

physiology the effect of that can

actually change the way that your genes

are chemically functioning doesn't

change the sequence of the genetic

alphabet but it changes the actual

ability of that DNA to be turned on or

expressed or not and this effect can be

long-term in fact these effects can be

inherited so that if there's an

epigenetic change that occurs as a

result of your diet that can influence

your son or your daughter's diet and

when they continue it can go on to their

children so these effects can be

long-term and of course they sort of you

might if you don't continue the what

would you say the in the the stimulus

that's giving rise to it then it falls

off in a few generations but this is

something that strongly affects the

physiology long-term and there's now

evidence that this occurs with the

pesticides that you eat anybody heard of

atrazine atrazine is one of the most

commonly used herbicides it's used in

corn as used in many crops

there's now research that's been done

showing that the effects of atrazine on

this was done in in mice if you feed a

mouse atrazine in their diet and then

you look at you will see changes in

their genome okay you look at the and

behavioral changes you look at the next

generation those will be there and you

look at the third generation and they'll

be there so this happens both from the

good things in our diet and from the bad

things well this is this is a little

heavy and and you know so no-no but it's

it's important because we're looking at

our our history of our own choices in

life our families and looking back

perhaps but what's really great about

food as medicine is that the choice to

change that trajectory can happen as

soon as the next meal right so that's a

beautiful thing and so that's what what

you really focus on right how and you as

well like how to flip from and avoid

some of the toxins both in the food on

the food or in the environment generally

and or how to counteract that by

limiting those toxins and shooting

choosing food for health and there's

studies that show that within one week

ninety percent of the pesticides were

reduced in a family in Sweden that went

organic and and within two weeks a

hundred percent we're out of their

system and out of their body so it is it

can be done very quickly now that's

that's very encouraging I think that's

the beauty of it maybe you don't know

exactly which foods are right for your

dosha for you know your body type and

you might want to do some research

online or go see a professional but what

you do know is if you can avoid the bad

and shoot for the good then you're on

the right direction what you were just

describing Zen what that says to me is

that we have a profound ability to

change our health and that probably the

most singularly most important thing is

not even worrying so much about

pesticides or contaminants but just

simply choosing healthy food because it

will be restorative not quite overnight

but almost so within a week two weeks we

see changes in the pattern of the gut

microbiome in a matter of days and we

can influence this DIY organic though

they were purposely avoiding pesticides

yes sure oh I'm not advocating that

people continue eating even plant foods

that are contaminated okay but I mean

but the thing is that just simply

stopping that and replacing it with

healing foods that help to bind and take

toxins out of the body and replace them

with really good things can have a

profound almost overnight effect and

with regards to the gut microbiome we

talk a lot about the fermented foods and

I'm a big fan of them but the singularly

the most important thing we can do again is

a whole food plant-based diet that

provides the fiber and the resistance

starch that nourishes the microbes that

are already there it feeds the good guys

and it doesn't feed it actually sort of

starves although I don't want to use the

negative term but it doesn't feed the

opportunistic ones that overgrow and

cause so many problems so just simply

the singularly most important thing is

change your diet in this healthy way and

the effects are profound that certainly

was your experience when it was this

made me think as we're talking here this

is your life this is what you did and

what happened to you it's you know it's

interesting because not I think a lot of

We want to eat healthily we hear all these

things we hear GMO non GMO we hear

organic better than organic if you're in

In the farming community, some people will

tell you that organic has lost it's real

meaning all these different kinds of

labels that get slapped on everything we

heard the mall before we started doing

this we shopped organically when you're

in Guantanamo Bay, you shop with whatever

is there so it's a little different but

but when we even started the growers market

yeah yeah we even we just got our

seeds from the local seed story I mean

nothing didn't really pay attention to

how they were grown and where they came

from and whether or not they were

manually hybridized or any of that and

we were growing and I was having

responses to corn which I'm a California

a kid I mean we three world tacos are like

a part of every college here and I was

having this like a severe reaction to corn

I would have a mini seizure my

my face would tech I would and we're

talking very quickly and then the next

a handful of days all my joints would be

really sore I'd have trouble

again and it took us a while to figure

it out and finally I did just a

sensitivity test not necessarily an

allergy test and it was showing up as

like number one than those and corn and

plums and my thought process was

you can't eat corn in the United

States it's in everything it's in your

medicine it's in makeup it's it's

literally everywhere and we tried it

and we were getting the medicine I had

to take compounded and it wasn't making

a difference and for me when we talk

about making these changes there's

there's kind of the there's the perfect

the world right and then there's also the

I'm already overwhelmed I have a

diagnosis I'm just trying to keep my

life in order I just need to know what I

have to do today to make sure I get to

tomorrow and then I'll figure out

tomorrow right and for me that what corn

was the thing that I was like this is

absurd

I don't know how this is I'm gonna do

this is the rest of my life and not and

really just live right so I took some

time and I read a lot about heirloom and

heirloom varieties and how that person

were that were having sensitivities to

even wheat that they were able to eat

heirloom varieties and not have a

the reaction so I convinced my husband to

listen to me and we planted a small

patch of heirloom corn and when we were

harvesting it my dad and I were standing

there and we peeled it and Mike stopped

me when I met him he was a paramedic and

he's like my here my job is the

Savior like that's my job

right I wear a cape my job is to save you

if you have a reaction I don't ever want

to hear corn again I like to suck it up

like we're done and dad nice out there

and pulled it off on reading sweet corn

just standing there and no reaction and

literally within the next two weeks we

pulled everything out we converted a

hundred percent to heirloom because it

took it from I'm not a scientist I don't

have that background it took it from all

this stuff that we hear and this group

says this and this group says that and

and it took it from this antidotal I

don't know who to believe everybody is

arguing to the lake I can tell you if I

eat this my body literally physically

reacts in a way people can see and it's

negative and if I eat this it

and that's that change that even with

organic it's one step further and and

the hard part with organic is for a lot

of years all of the genetic testing for

GMO was too expensive for these agencies

to even be doing it so you have greens

that people are saying they're organic

but depending on when you kind of

made that transition California organic

cert I've spoken to them just this past

a year and they said the tests are cheap

they test every time grain comes into

California because that happens to be a

a big thing that's genetically modified

that they're actually testing it but the

The problem is that if you're if you're

eating a varietal that is either

manually hybridized and you're allergic

to one part of that Blue Ox is a good

For example, I'm allergic to plum so I can't

have pluots I also have some trouble

with some of the tree nuts and because

that's all in that family so if it's

hybridized with something to give it a

better shelf-life or to give it a

different flavor and you don't know that

you're gonna have a reaction so for me

going completely organic or completely

heirloom was the change that made the

huge difference and trust me like as

any normal we have people that say like

oh and let me guess Amazon's never at

your house and like you don't use the toilet

paper use cloth and just all this great

system right that was like no Amazon's

on my house every day it's the cheapest

way to run a farm and I still eat

food that's not heirloom right like

that's life but I can tell you I can

walk and I'm not twitching and I'm not

lifting my legs at the end of the day

when I eat the way that I know my body

needs meeting is that this is some oh

sorry go-ahead

you know I was just gonna say you bring

up a really interesting point that also

that we're always trying to get people

to you know you can give people

guidelines because we have some

information about you know general

principles but it's about listening to

your body you know and if you eat

something even if your sister your

whoever spouse says you know this is

really good and you should eat it and

your body says no you know and if we're

listening we you know it'll tell us then

that's not right for you and then you

try something else and you say oh my

gosh I feel amazing when I eat this and

then you know that too and you have to

be honest with yourself because our

minds can trick us and say you know what

you're eating our cinema

every day feeling great the Girl Scout

cookie message is incorrect okay yeah

and I do I talk people follow an 8020

the rule you know because also we had a lot

of stress by saying I have to a hundred

percent of the time eat this perfect

food and you know our body's pretty

resilient when we're you know out of

that really really sick stage that we

can you know sometimes have that food

but you know most of your diet should be

like what your body is healthiest with

the important thing though is to not

give up that she pursued it and she

went after the heirloom corn you could

have just said that's it no corn ever

again

like we did with my son it was no nuts

you know once he almost died from nuts

we said no nuts not ever again and I

we were just resigned and doubtful that

anything could change until one day he

said mom I wish all my allergies would

go away and I said me too buddy but in

my head I was saying that's never gonna

happen and then I realized wait for a second

that's not empowering that's not what

I'm committed to what if something could

be different what if there is some other

Ayurvedic needles or some other way to

Tim to have an opportunity happen and

something could happen so I asked him

would you like to you know maybe one day

eat a slice of pizza at a birthday party

which he couldn't do at that time

because we knew a cousin who had gone

gluten-free and eventually she could

have it right once she healed her gut

she could have it later on and he said

yes and I said well then would you be my

partner would you partner me with me in

your health would you drink green drinks

and try alternative medicines and all

that he said yes and I said then I

promise you you're going to get better

and that promise whether you do that for

yourself or your spouse or your child is

very important because then that has you

do things you normally would never do

right like when you go to a doctor and

you you make that promise to follow that

the protocol you step up and you do things

that you normally never would do so the

the important thing is to not give up and to

keep trying new things and promise

somebody else that you're gonna do this

well and the easy answer is not always

you know what we tend to do is say I

can't eat wheat or I can't eat avocados

but let's remember like what kind is

being grown and is it a very hybridized

modernized version or is it an era to

Heritage or heirloom variety sometimes

they call them biblical rights on the

other hand and then

for how is it grown is it growing

organically is it grown conventionally

and/or GMO which means that it's likely

to carry a significantly higher toxic

load and of course then again on top of

that it depends on which kind of you

know vegetable you're talking about I

don't know if you guys are familiar but

Environmental Working Group puts out

something called the Dirty Dozen and

they say look not everybody's perfect

none of us buys 100% organic all the

time or most of us don't and so there's

certain foods that are more likely to

carry a toxic load and these are the

ones they say buy organic these other

ones they might still have it but they

don't carry quite the toxic load so

again it's not sort of a

one-size-fits-all on these things I had

a reaction to an allergic-type reaction

white blood cell build-up and so my body

constantly felt tired and sick because

I thought it was you know fighting

these foreign invaders and once you go

through a process to eliminate and clean

and detoxify then your body is just sort

of focused on itself again and can move

forward instead of constantly in fight

mode how does is that consistent with

what you you experience in your work I I

wanted to just pick up on Zen bringing

up empowerment, because we know from the

research that when people are engaged in

their own health care even things like

monitoring your blood pressure your

glucose or so what's any more

involvement than your daily preparation

of food and also I've always heard that

if you're trying to make changes in your

life a lot of people kind of go to

all-or-nothing instead of realizing that

if you'll make some small steps that can

make some big differences if you just go

home and get rid of one or two things in

your home that but you feel is the most

destructive or that you don't feel good

about the other thing too is to have a

plan and on Gerson do we ever have a

the plan we tell people exactly every hour

what you're doing and what juice and

what kind of what meal and what

things need to be involved in that meal

and then what you're going to do the

next day and that kind of thing but but

the same thing applies to us in our

day-to-day lives to nothing's anymore

empowering than to literally quote

excuse the pun step up to the

plate

and take care you know take charge take

charge for some people it is a hundred

percent at least for a while

just make that commitment to go a

hundred percent you know for instance

like gluten getting gluten or dairy out

of your diet, it takes months for that to

come out of your body so it is important

to go a hundred percent as much as you

know as much as you possibly and don't

give up yeah and I do want to add

that my son did get better his allergies

went from a 19 down to a point two and

so he no longer has life-threatening

allergies to nuts which typically get

worse, not better and he did that by

healing him himself yeah and I think one

of the disc services we do and like

really conventional medicine is

disempower people you know and I

think the worst thing you can tell a

the patient is this is what's going to

happen you know and I like as an

integrative provider and you know I do

primary care still you know send people

to specialists and you know if they need

certain tests and then they'll come back

and tell me oh the GI doctor they said

diet has nothing to do with this and

it's like oh my god who focuses on

digestion the cancer ward that serves

donuts okay yes and you know and

they'll say the rheumatologist or

the whoever said that this is what's

going to happen with this disease and so

I need to do this medicine or whatever

and you know and not to you know I I'm

kind of on both sides and in the sense

that I do see what happens when people

don't do anything and yes that is true

that would happen if you do nothing

however, if you do these things like

change your diet and then then you can

shift that trajectory and it doesn't

have to look like that and just giving

people that that sense that our body is

constantly changing and that every

a choice we make affects that change

it's a dynamic process it's not

necessarily just you're headed down this

a course that may be true if you don't

change what you're doing because that's

kind of what how you got here and so I

think just giving people that little

sense of empowerment and a different

a perspective that this is really a

the dynamic process going on right now like

we were talking about the microbiome can

the shift in a couple of days one bite of

the food you take can shift your gene

expression and then you start to realize

like wow I can really affect what's

happening

I think that sometimes that empowerment

is also daunting because then it means

that I have a responsibility as well and

you know I think these things are

sometimes in in turmoil obviously no one

here is saying that you know anything

and everything can be 100% cured with

diet on the other hand can you alter the

a trajectory that one says that you are on

dramatically I think the answer is

clearly yes I think it looks like you

want to jump in yeah there's there's

really a continuum of possibilities

there are some things where diet some

diseases where diet probably will have a

marginal if little effect it might help

your health in other ways but not

necessarily address the disease on the

other hands there are some diseases on

the other end is that our diet is driven and

some of the most common and important

ones are very much on that end of the

container top two or three right yes so

you were asking before about the concept

that I was going to mention about the

therapeutic order oh sure your pyramid

yes yes no no this is good because most

of us are used to the sort of Western

a paradigm which is you know what drugs do

I get or what procedure do I didn't let

I keep eating my honey bun or Cinnabon

but no so how is yours is very different

you're very different well years ago

when I studied some of the more ancient

healing systems Chinese medicine

Ayurvedic it was intuitive to me that

you started with food and lifestyle

and you changed you create the

conditions for health with these and

then only when those aren't sufficient

do you then go up to sort of the ladder or

the pyramid toward increasingly

invasive kinds of things if you're in a

car accident you go straight to at the

trauma center you don't waste your time

with you know diet and herbs and all

that but

write that down folks if you're

unconscious that's not the time to do

psychotherapy well actually a

calming influence is always a good thing

and healthy food when a person recovers

is the first thing after the crisis has

been resolved so we have to use really

good judgment but in naturopathic

the medicine they came up with this concept

called the therapeutic order and it

really holds that diet and lifestyle is

the foundation most things before we

ever even medicalize them and give them

a label and it scare people with all

this workup and evaluation they'll

simply resolve if we change the health

conditions through diet and lifestyle

and then if that's not sufficient we use

targeted natural therapeutics herbs

acupuncture allopathic medicine when

that's not sufficient and then of course

allopathic is Western medicine the way

the common you know understanding of you

know disease or symptom-focused and you

know pharmaceutically or surgically

based interventions at the forefront

well I think this is really important

you know we've been talking a lot about

how we might use food to deal with a

particular problem but again if we go

back to sort of body fundamentals and

immune system and gut as the origin of

the good or the bad you know maybe what

we're doing is we're creating a lean

mean fighting machine so that when the

incoming comes we're better able to ward

it off is that true it sounds really

good Star Wars II like but I like it is

that means that that's so right

you know children used to play

outside barefooted on the earth they

weren't slathered with antibacterial

soap as a kid I ate dirt I tasted

everything on the farm you know my

mother would wait she'd see me coming

down the lane and she'd wait with the

garden hose to hose me to hell so that I

could go in the house because I would

step on anything I tried to drink water

out of the dog's bowl, you know those

those kinds of exposure to just those

but what we're talking about you know so

and as we know now it says in the soil

so in the gut

so she was very wise in a lot of ways to

have given me that fur so your immune

the system is stronger I am a very sturdy

and yes system yes yeah Charlotte

Charlotte Gerson tells me that if she

had done to her body what I did that

she'd been gone a long time ago and

she's 96 years old but she's lived

very clean eaten very clean and if

there is a crisis by living this way

we've created resilience within ourself

that will help us enormous Lee during

that crisis I want to hear a little bit

more about because I think that's you

know we're not just talking about again

you know if we think about disease or

symptom focus now we're backtracking to

young healthy people how do we keep them

that way and strong I mean and how does

it does that and why does that matter

we really need to start with how we

educate our children you know to start with

what we are feeding our kids maybe

that's the most singular the most

important thing or place to focus if we

want to build a healthy population

healthy society so they have healthy

habits of their own and so that for

them it's they know what a vegetable is

they know where it grows and into it

then that helps them develop their

intuition about how to heal themselves

or what they need to do and I think that

ties in just lifestyle in general like

are you taking your kids outside or are

they are inside all the time or you know and

then is it just is there just over

stimulation and stress like is a huge

a factor with digestion you know and how

you digest your food your immune system

and everything so when you know because

we teach meditation and lifestyle in

addition to food like food is a big

component and again when you're doing

all of these things and you're reducing

the stress response and you're

connecting to nature and all of these

things and teaching your kids how to do

that then you know again sometimes

things do happen and we do need

medications for things and certain

people and but your body is going

to be able to use anything you give it

in a much better way when the

foundations are there you know it's it's

important to trust your children too

that they can do much more than a lot of

we think that they can do for instance

my middle son had autism symptoms when

he was about eight and half a sudden

onset of autism symptoms hitting and

yeah

grades dropped you know from ACE down to

DS and it was not like him and so I took

him to the doctor and he tested him for

fungus and bacteria in his urine I said

why are you testing for fungus and

bacteria he said because oftentimes the

bad gut bacteria can lead to

inflammation in the brain which can lead

to behavioral issues and I thought wow

that's what glyphosate does you know

that's what's in a roundup that's sprayed

in our food and it occurred to me that

that son was eating wheat which is

sprayed with glyphosate or roundup as a

drying agent, it does not wash off GMO

just yeah it's not GMO it's just it's

soso wheat legumes beans peas tea

sugar oats are highly sprayed with

glyphosate as a drying agent if it's not

organic and so he was eating this you

know gluten food because my other two

sons were gluten intolerant but he was

not so he was the only one that was

eating gluten and at that time we tested

again very important we tested his urine

and his urine was eight times higher of

glyphosate levels than was ever found in

Europe and so there was roundup and my

son and we realized that we needed to go

strictly organic and he needed to not

eat sugar and this was between

Thanksgiving and New Year's and he

promised to do that and he did that and

we went strictly organic a hundred

percent even like the canned chicken we

had to get that out because that's not

organic and we did put in probiotics

and colloidal silver we did have to do a

compound antifungal medicine but that

was six hundred and fifty dollars a

month so when people tell me they can't

afford organic I remind them the cost of

medicine is much more expensive and

then within six weeks, we retested him

for glyphosate, his levels were no

longer detectable and his autism

symptoms were gone and have never come

back but he did that also by not eating

sugar he made that choice and we trusted

you know that he would do that in

partnership with him and so I think we

need to trust our children and our

family members even like if you

have a mom or a dad you're like oh

they're never gonna change their diet

don't do that to them give show them the

movies like GMO oMG or genetic roulette

or there's a great movie out now called

modified there's

a new movie called secret ingredients it's

all about people healing through food

there's a movie that's coming out pretty

soon called food cure right so there's

great educational tools that you can use

out there just have faith that they will

be inspired by one of them and why don't

you mention some of the desiccation

and the use of glyphosate in that

process cuz I think a lot of people

assume that roundup is only associated

with GMO crops and not conventional

crops that aren't you know haven't been

modified to withstand the spraying but

all of these grain crops get sprayed at

the end for desiccation and

interestingly if you're not aware you

can look at food democracy now did some

testing of basic breakfast cereals and

one of the things that for me was most

horrific was to see that of all of the

cereals they tested the one that had the

single highest residual rate of

glyphosate was ordinary Cheerios and I

think to myself what is the one food

that every parent in America carries

around in a small, you know Ziploc or

Tupperware to feed to their child its

Cheerios and that has a really high

toxic load and so there are some foods

and that's one of them that you

know you really may want to pay

attention to eating organic if you want

to reduce that toxic load and how it

might affect you and it's very

important also that vegan and

vegetarians understand that hummus and

chickpeas garbanzo beans had the highest

levels along with wheat so if you're

feeding your child a plate of chickpeas

and hummus and they have oatmeal for

breakfast

and then they have buckwheat noodles for

dinner they are eating the highest

levels of glyphosate exposure that you

can possibly expose them to so unless

you buy organic unless you buy organic

so it's very important to not just be

vegan and vegetarian if that's what

you're doing but to also purchase

organic food to avoid

glyphosate I think it's also important

to not put the focus just on glyphosate

I'm not saying it's a healthy thing at

all but the same kinds of dietary

changes that will reduce glyphosate also

change the food in many other ways when

you when you're eating refined products

they have a thousand things including

glyphosate perhaps but also many other

negative attributes and so we can't just

pin it on the glyphosate and say that's

that's the evil thing because we're like

the seven blind men with the elephant

and saying it's just the trunk or it's

just the tail we

really need to think about and not even

not even focusing on villainizing things

but on focusing in a positive way on

what we want to move toward

and I come back again like a broken

record to a whole food plant-based diet

not a refined diet but one that is that

has intact kernel whole grains not

villainizing them because oh they may

contain gluten or they may contain you

know glyphosate or whatever but because

they are rich in healing properties that

nourish the microbiome from underneath

create that balance creates good got

brain connections activate genes in the

a brain that changes the expression in the

brain that code for neurotransmitters

that make us happy reduce our stress

reduce our anxiety so changing the

a dietary pattern in this way I think is

really that I want people to focus in a

positive way on what they can do to help

themselves and not just what is of the

grocery store yes I agree with you

that's really it's the foundation but in

this day and age we need to look to

these indicators are full of impurity in our

food and we look at glyphosate as being

an indicator of other things in meat

products there are also indicators a few

things that you can measure easily that

are our indicators that you don't want

to eat that chicken you want to eat

another one and it's critical that

people be given the ability to make

those choices and then talks about

glyphosate because that's been an

an indicator that's made a big deal big

the difference for her family but we need to

go deeper than that and we need in a way

what we're finding in our work because

we've tested hundreds of products at

this point and what we find is that the

difference between conventional and

organic is striking and so by making the

choice of going organic or growing your

own and especially even going to

you know the ancient varieties this

making that Cho, ice, however, you can

personally make it has a huge effect and

so we can then from that foundation

begin to make good choices about what we

eat in there it's very important to to

avoid these things I hear and I agree

with what you're saying John my concern

is that if we focus just on the negative

thing like you know stay away from that

in a kind of phobic way and we don't put

equal or greater emphasis on moving

toward healing foods and thinking about

the richness and focusing on the

diversity of taste and the balance of

the foods and understanding how the

healing properties within us we're gonna

compromise our ability for self-healing

so yes you definitely want to understand

the toxic load of foods and I'm not

advocating them in the least if anything

I would that's one of the first things I

warn people against but but but I think

the emphasis needs to be a positive one

an affirming one toward life and foods

that are rich in life energy this is

always an eat this not that kind of

dialogue and you know it this is a bit

of a yin and yang kind of conversation

but of course, we're talking about all

the things that you could you should eat

and what they do to the body and how

they can create a stronger immune system

and how they can deal with even specific

ailments and so on you can get down into

the weeds like here's a good food

for the brain or the liver or in it has

great numbers of lysine great or you can

sort of focus on you know Michael Pollan

eat food mostly greens not so much I

mean sometimes like I always come back

to that again and say you know that

that's sort of the fundamentals on the

On one hand, you don't want to get you these

are important issues extremely important

issues but you also don't want to become

you know fearful of food I had someone

come over the other day and said I don't

want to eat your romaine lettuce out of

your garden I hear it has e.coli and I

said not this one I think I hope but I

mean but but but but that's an

an important point because you know we can

we can all focus and agree on you

know eat real food not

food okay step one and then we can talk

about you know whole nutritionally dense

foods great we all agree now as we get

down and we say okay so then we have

organic conventional GMO we probably all

agree on which of those is the best as

well but I think you know it is

sometimes good to stay here we don't

want to make people fearful of you know

romaine lettuce but then there is a

study there was a study out recently

that showed that women who were doing

IVF to get pregnant that were eating

fruits and veggies the ones who ate the

fruits and veggies with pesticides on it

had lower levels of success so it's not

factual to just say eat your fruits and

veggies if you really want to be healthy

and to get pregnant to have healthy

children it does need to be organic

fruits and veggies for the best outcome

well actually then I will totally turn

that around and I would put veggies way

before fruit and I would put a whole

grains and veggies at the top because

people have a misconception about what

is even healthy within a plant-based

the diet you know fruits are important

especially when it's the right season

for them but we want to have

greater diversity and when we're

encouraging people to have clean

versions of these and life energy

filled versions of these you know we

don't I think I also wonder when you

mention people who you know women who

are undergoing IVF and didn't have as

good a result it may have been a

the function of what was in the fruits and

veggies they were eating or maybe they

were missing other things in their diet

that were healing they may have also

been that their awareness of that was a

reflection of others or lack of awareness

of of that was a reflection of other

things were they more likely to be

smoking to be you know drinking alcohol

to not exercise so I think we have to be

careful to say oh it was their

non-organic fruits and veggies that were

the cause when it was part of a larger

pattern but when we know that there's

pesticides that cause endocrine

disruption and impact you know fertility

we know that now so with especially with

glyphosate so it is it's just not

factual I'm just saying to tell people

to eat whole fruits and vegetables

without addressing the issue of

pesticides that can I mean we have a

thousand endocrine disruptors in the

United States Sweden allows three

these endocrine disruptors impact

fertility sterility we have you know

sperm quality level of men now is 50% of

what their grandfathers were we have an

the issue in the United States and it is it

is primarily stemming from I believe and

many doctors believe now the toxic

burden and that toxic burden is a pioneer

primarily introduced through our

population through the food in the water

and that's coming from GMO chemical

farming in other and other sources I

mean that's what I'm the point is I

think that the point that he's making

and you guys actually are agreeing but

it's just that as a legal matter you

can't point to a single cause in most

instances because any are toxic load

comes from a variety of sources those

are two big ones but there are others

you know and it's one of the reasons why

in the law, it's often hard to improve

these and as a scientist and as a

scientific matter as an epidemiologist I

know that we have to be careful when we

assert this is the cause that's the

the effect when there are multiple potential

causes that are associated with one

another that go together and so we

really don't know I'm not at all arguing

for GMOs or for toxins in food quite the

contrary but to say that's the cause

that's the effect I get a little

concerned and I think we may we may

weaken our argument or the force of what

we're arguing for because people can

find you know the potential flaw in the

reasoning and then dismiss everything

else we're saying so I want us to be

really strong in our arguments and

really grounded and that's it I put out

a unifying concept that we should be

going for nutrient-dense foods that are

toxin lacking the toxins and you put

lowest toxic together and then you're in

good shape and if you look at and the

the key thing it's easy to say yes to foods

that are infused with nutrients and we

want all of that but for the mom or the

dad is well where do I get those how to do

I tell if this zucchini is better than

that Zook you know if and no no let me

finish the key thing there is that

we do have some indicators we there

is quite a lot of research out there

indicating that organic is more

nutrient-dense than conventional and

also, that organic is lower in these

toxins than conventional and so

it's pretty illogical to use that it's a

big guide it's not enough it really

isn't and this is what you experience

working group study and what they have

on their website which is look I think

we have to be honest I think in a

perfect world weeding organic 100% of

the time and some people are but not

everyone is and maybe not everyone has

access to that so for the majority of

people, it's certainly in some areas

let's talk about those things which we

should most avoid and that includes

certain foods over other certain foods

but most importantly it's processed

foods so let's go back to Whole Foods

and talk about how Whole Foods

nutrient-dense is the way to sort of

create this I want to add another

attribute though and that's what's in

season what's growing in our own

backyard

because if we understand that

we're eating with the seasons because if

we eat locally we're gonna be doing that

more or less and we understand that

plants have life energy and intelligence

we also understand that that changes

with time over the course

of the year

the life energy of plants where is it in

the winter it's down in the roots the

leaves have come off the sap has gone

down the life energy is the Chi of the

plant and the stand and the nutrients

follow that so if we in the winter are

eating the more Rudy kinds of things the

more the stored nuts and grains and we

cook them with fire to make the mo more

digestible and in the summer we're

eating more leafy things and fruits at

the right time we're gonna be naturally

going where the nutrients are the most

dense potato really focuses on seasonal

eating as well what you eat in the

summer versus the cold or the hot

weather absolutely it can get very very

sophisticated in the in like even what

the phases of the Moon were when you

harvest the fruits and things like that

and it's I that sounds like biodynamic

now yeah yeah I mean I and I fully

believe it

and you know again just to speak to the

a whole conversation like the thing I love

about Ayurveda is that there's you're

always going back to the basic

principles and the basic principles you

know and like when we do detoxes

and cleanses because we you know even

despite our best efforts, we are exposed

we live in a world that in Ayurveda the

whatever is out there is in us as well

like you were saying your son you know

we all have these chemicals in us we and

there have been studies where we could

draw the blood of everyone in the room

and you're exposed to things you didn't

even know we're in you because anything

that's happening out there is our body

in Ayurveda that is our extended body

and when you start talking

about that you I think it brings a

a little bit of social consciousness and

social awareness to support organic

and supporting you know how we're

treating the environment maybe not

necessarily for a selfish purpose but

kind of in a way because that is our

body and so that's going to affect us so

you know when we're cleansing we say

we're doing two things we're taking out

what isn't serving the body and we're

print bringing in what it needs to heal

and so like those are two really basic

principles and that's again speaking to

all of this is is we want to remove

what's not serving us and what's

creating disease and blocking our

natural pathways and we want to bring in

natural and nutrient-rich food

so we always go back to nature so again

whether it's the cycles and the seasons

or whether it's producing food as

naturally, as you can mean not putting

man-made things on there you know these

are like the core principles and you

know like if you can just have that in

your awareness and just be aware every

the time you're choosing the food you know

chances are you're going to be much more

on that side of making the best choices

for your health you know I just I think

as a culture, we tend to be in San Diego

is great we have a lot of farms here you

can the more farms per capita than

anyone anywhere in America folks you can

go to a farmers market I think every day

of the week except Monday is how last

the time I read it I think Monday is that or

the one that has them in a farmers

the market here on campus is just down that

grass area so we have that but we're

also culturally really disconnected from

our food right we don't know our farmer

we think local means

in California so if I'm gonna get

carrots from Central California and

that's local but I can't get grapes from

Baja because that's out of country and

that's not local we're disconnected

we're missing something major when I

have people ask me when we have

figs ready and they say how many days

don't have to wait to eat these and the

The first time I was asked I was like what

are you Thai you know I eat them

whenever you want and the answer was no

I always get them in there Harden I have

to wait till they get soft and I'm like

oh by the way figs don't ripen off the

the tree they're going rot and eat them like

we were right we're disconnected from

that yeah yeah texture is kind of

different but we're disconnected

from that part of it and then

there's also some information

that's been out there that says like

the millennial generation is the

a generation that has it's something like

less than 30% actually know how to cook

and there's no desire to so it's not

like they're refusing it's just that

there's no desire to it's a different

it's a different kind of generation and

they're not doing that all of those

things mean that we that like it or not

we're falling on processed foods in some

fashion they may be better

processed foods because they're organic

but that part of it if if all people

could do we have me still go-to treatment

every day I'm back in treatment I was in

remission for 18 months I started back

in treatment actually the day Christina

and I launched a pharmacy that was

the most ironic thing in the world but I

was there so I I sit and get

significantly fewer medicines than I did

the first time around actually very very

little but that means every day since we

launched it I'm talking to the other

patients and talking to people in a real

world life scenario right how we all eat

and how we want to eat is probably like

the best of the best and then there's

like life and their answer is I don't

know how to cook that I don't know-how

to break down garlic I don't know how to

make yogurt I don't know how to do all

of these things so if I could make that

one change right so if I could get rid

of the 12 items that I

should never buy a conventional and only

buy organic what are those and so I

agree with that I agree that there's

like these baby steps that have to get

there and then you realize things like

you eat a tomato that's from your local

farmer and that's the best tomato later

over half the ugly one that's got

appendages you know and right and those

are and to me, those are the like

instinct gratifications right like so

you see you have somebody that goes well

I get this and I'm used to getting that

or I always just get whatever yogurt and

it says organic and it's okay and then

they start to kind of go more to those

Whole Foods and they're like oh I can

actually, make yogurt or I can make my

own pasta sauce and get closer towards

that I think I think part of what's

needed here is to draw on both sides of

the brain the scientific reductionist

side is very important for you to know for

making sure we're doing things carefully

but we also wanted to unleash the artists

our intuition we want to get in tune

with the natural rhythms of nature

because that's telling us where the

nutrients are that it's not one

juxtaposed against the other it helps us

to understand and to deepen our healing

well we're about out of time and I just

sort of want to close with the final

thought it's something my husband often

says you know there's a lot of

information that's been imparted today

from the sort of 30,000 view perspective

and down into the weeds on the positive

and on the potential negatives and I

guess he likes to say that you should

never let the perfect be the

enemy of the good enough and we all have

to make the steps and take the steps

that we're ready and able to make at

this point in our lives and hopefully

heading toward perfection and on a right

trajectory but we all do the best we can

listen keep this conversation alive we

will continue to engage we'll bring in

the panelists just hash tag food is

medicine on Twitter and or Facebook and

we'll we want to keep this going because

I think this is fundamentally the

the most fundamental building block of

our own health and as it turns out the

health of our

communities and the environment.